HANAUE TOSHIO: THE INTERVIEW (1969)
The following interview with Hanaue Toshio was conducted on November 7, 1969. Hanaue is a senior instructor of Okinawa Seito Karate-do [Presently, the name "Shudokan" and "Okinawa Seito Karate-do has fallen into disuse. Most of Toyama's senior students now refer to the style as Toyama-ryu. -- Editor]. The interview was conducted with the help of Sgt's Raymond Clark and Ralph Bennett (both individuals were ranked as Shudokan Shihan). The site of the interview was Hanaue's dojo, the Kodokan, located at 943 Kumagawa, Fussa-shi, Tokyo 197, Japan. It should be noted that Hanaue does have an English language sign identifying his training hall and stating the full name of his dojo as "The Ushihama Karate and Bojutsu Religious Training House."
[In Japanese, the sign reads "Ushihama Karate Bojutsu Dojo." -- Editor]
Interviewer: Sensei, I noticed that your school does not belong to one of the four main Japanese schools -- like shotokan, goju-ryu, shito-ryu or wado-ryu. Can you tell me something about your style?
Hanaue-sensei: The full name of my dojo is the Ushihama Karate-Bojutsu Dojo Kodokan. This original name of the style is Okinawa Seito Karate-do. This is the name given the style by its founder, Toyama Kanken Dai Sensei. In English this translates as Okinawa Orthodox Karate-do. This means that Toyama Dai Sensei taught the true and original orthodox style of Okinawan karate as taught by the great budo-masters, Itosu Ankoh and Higaonna Kanryo of Okinawa Prefecture. Toyama Dai Sensei taught all the old styles of Okinawa, not just bits and pieces.
[The Kodokan Karate-Bojutsu dojo is located in Fussa City, Tokyo, Japan. The section of Fussa City where the dojo is located is called Ushihama. It is about five minute walk from the Ushihama train station. - Editor]
I should also make mentioned that we belong to the All Japan Karate-do Association and the Federation of All Japan Karate-do Organizations. This system -- the shudokan -- is a registered method of Japanese karate-do and my dojo is the general headquarters for the shudokan. If you look to compare, I believe we are more closely related to the shito-ryu system of the late Mabuni Kenwa.
Both Toyama and Mabuni were students of the original modern-day founders of Okinawan karate. Both taught the complete systems of their teachers -- Itosu-style Shuri-te and Higaonna-style Naha-te.
Interviewer: Could you please give me some more information about Toyama Kanken Dai sensei and his teachers or methods?
Sensei: This style originated from the teachings of the late Okinawan karate genius, Toyama Kanken. Toyama was an Okinawan educator and a senior karate headmaster. He was a student of both Itosu Ankoh (of Shuri-te method) and Higaonna Kanryo (of Naha-te). He mastered both systems and he taught both systems as complete martial arts.
After the war, Toyama came under the direction of his three senior peers. He received instruction first from Miyagi Chojun, of the Naha-te system but presently named gojuryu, and then Chibana Choshin, of the shorinryu school. After the death of Miyagi Chojun in 1953, Toyama received further instruction from Kyoda Jyuhatsu of Beppu, Japan, in Okinawa-style Toon-ryu.
[Okinawa Toon-ryu is the only Okinawan karate style that is not taught on Okinawa. Kyoda moved to Beppu, located in mainland Japan, upon his retirement as a school teacher in 1944. His Beppu dojo is still open with his senior students still teaching Okinawa Toon-ryu. -- Editor]
The name, Okinawa Seito Karate-do, comes from Toyama's teachings in that he taught both systems -- both complete systems. First you must learn all the old Shuri-te forms before you are indoctrinated into the advanced Naha-te methods. It is like first learning all of the teachings of shorin-ryu and then advancing into the goju-ryu system. Both systems are complete martial arts and both compliment each other.
To pay respect to both systems, Toyama adopted the name Okinawa Seito Karate-do (Okinawa Orthodox Karate-do). This means he was teaching all of the methods of Shuri-te and Naha-te. In technique, he merged both systems but left the kata pure. The only exception was in the kata sanchin. Miyagi performed the kata with his hands closed but Kyoda corrected the form so it was done with the hands opened.
Interviewer: Sensei, can you give me a basic history of your background?
Sensei: Yes, if you think that is important. Presently, my rank certification is this: I am ranked a Hanshi by Toyama Kanken and the All Japan Karate-do Association. My award of this rank is dated February 12, 1961 [The certificate is prominently displayed next to the kamiza. It is signed by Kanken Toyama as president of the All Japan Karate-do Association. -- Editor]. My only instructor has been Toyama Kanken. Toyama Dai Sensei died November 24, 1966. I am also a graduate of Yokohama City Commercial High School and of Chuo University.
I first began my karate-do training in 1948 and was promoted to 4-Dan in 1952 and as a full Shihan 5-Dan in 1953. I opened my first dojo in 1954 at Atsugi in Kanagawa Prefecture and taught the American military at Camp Zama. I opened up my present dojo, the Ushihama Karate-Bojutsu Training Hall, in 1958.
I have eight karate schools under my personal direction here in Tokyo and my crest (mon) is called the Koyakai -- this means United Under One Association. My bojutsu instructors were Toyama, Akamine and Matsuke. The style of bojutsu that I teach is Ninten-ryu bojutsu and I hold the rank of shihan menkyo kaiden.
Interviewer: Sensei, could explain your present ranking system and where it comes from?
Sensei: I follow the ranking guidelines as put together by Toyama Kanken Dai Sensei. I teach the following kata: pinan 1 through 5, naifanchin [Naifanchin is the Japanese pronunciation of the Okinawan word, Naihanchin. -- Editor] shodan, bassai-dai, chinto, Chibana kusanku and okugi gojushiho. This is followed by our advanced kata: naifanchin nidan and sandan, wankan, Shuri seisan, jion and Shuri sanchin. While completing the Shuri kata you are also indoctrinated into Ninten-ryu Bojutsu. After completion of the Shuri kata you are taught the advanced forms of goju-ryu/toon-ryu.
My dojo specializes in bojutsu training and I teach the following kata: tenryu-no-kon, shushi-no-kon, sakugawa-no-kon, yonegawa-no-kon, sunagake-no-kon, hakuson-no-kon, tsuken-bo, teruya-no-kon, oshiro-no-kon and Chibana-no-kon. The last one is in honor of Toyama's senior, Chibana Choshin of Okinawa. I should state that Chibana's shorin-ryu kata and Toyama's kata are virtually the same in translation.
Interviewer: Thank you for your time and would you like to pass on any thoughts concerning your methods of budo karate?
Sensei: Yes, I would like to say... Nowadays, instructors tend to look towards a scientific explanation of what karate-do is about. If certain ideas, concepts or theories do not match today's known explanations -- they change it so that it can be explained.
The method of isometric training is relatively new -- about 25 years ago it was found that this type of training had benefits. Okinawan karate-men have been training in sanchin for over one hundred years. If modern day thoughts were around back then, sanchin kata would have been thrown out! Work with your style or system. If you trust your teacher, listen to what he is saying -- don't judge the merit of a method based on the fact that you don't understand it!
Interviewer: I guess Americans are very curious and are always wanting answers to questions -- I know that this is not the Japanese way.
Sensei: You are right. Americans are always asking "why?" "why?" and again "why?" Because there are so many of you who have shown a real interest in budo, we teachers have had to change our ways. It is difficult to teach Americans the koryu (ancient) martial art. But in order to spread, we have to change our old ways -- as Americans often say, change with the times. I think that that is what happened when the Okinawans first came to Japan. They had to change their old ways as we are doing for the Americans.
Interviewer: Sensei, this change, many teachers do not like change and they resist it. This has even caused hard feelings between various senior teachers. And I know that change is inevitable - it is part of growing. How do you see it, is change good or bad?
Sensei: Oh, yes, I strongly believe that change is good. Nothing in this world is constant. We change for the good and for the bad. Karate is now world wide. We have done our duty as budo teachers. Yes, it is very good.
Interviewer: Sensei, you have given me this article from the Nishi Tama Shimbun. Can you tell me something about it?
Sensei: This article appeared in the October 25, 1969 issue of the Nishi Tama Shimbun and was translated into English by my student, Asami Akio. It is just some more information for your students.
A VISIT TO HANAUE TOSHIO - AN EIGHTH DEGREE KARATE BLACK BELT
-- an unexpectedly small gentleman --
Karate has been known as a defensive and protective BUDO (martial art) but it has also been recognized for its awesome and destructive power! They say that a karate expert can use his fingers to thrust into an enemy's eyes, ribs and even his stomach and, they say, can also take them out!! These are some of the more common beliefs.
A hand sword (tegatana) can also break several boards and destroy a brick with one clean swipe. Further, its flying kick (tobigeri) is known as karate's peculiar type of an offensive technique. These are the popular and general understanding of the Art of Karate.
This reporter used to know of a karate expert that has a training hall opened to the public in Fussa (a local town covered by this paper) but has never even had a single glance at it, keeping a popular Japanese saying, "A wise man never approaches a danger." But by chance, I was introduced to Mr Hanaue by his cousin, Mr Ichihara Akira. Mr Ichihara is working in Tokyo's Four Tama District Tax Office as an assistant manager. Also, Mr Tamura Riichi, a delegate to Tokyo Metropolitan Parliament, is going to organize a society for the support of Mr Hanaue Toshio.
"I'm scared to meet such a DAI SENSEI of the terrifying art of karate, Mr Ichihara!" "No, just meet him and you'll find him gentle and soft like a lady." That was Mr Ichihara's answer to me. I was still very uneasy on the way to the training hall.
At the DOJO, more than one hundred KEIKO-GI (training clothes) could be seen on the walls and its prosperity could be easily understood. My visit was during the morning hours so that only two young fellows and an American GI were there in hard training being observed by a small gentleman in a suit.
When I came in, I was to learn of karate's good manners. I first asked one of the young men training if I could meet with their instructor. They in turn advised me that the gentleman in the suit was Mr Hanaue! I quickly went over and introduced myself to this seemingly gentle looking man who was a holder of an eighth grade black belt in karate-do!
He did not look like a Hercules or a giant. His soft behavior, his gentle voice and his clean face were quite different from my preconceptions of Mr Hanaue. Only one thing symbolized his awesome power and that was his sharp, penetrating eyes. Mr Hanaue states that karate is not only for the average person but for all without prejudice to sex, age or health.
Mr Hanaue Toshio was born in 1930. After graduation from Yokohama City Commercial High School, he entered Chuo University. While at Chuo, he learned karate from the late Dai Sensei, Mr Toyama Kanken. Mr Toyama had been the president of the All Japan Karate-do Association.
When he became a junior at Chuo University at the age of 22, he was already an assistant Shihan in the All Japan Karate-do Association. After his graduation from the University, he became a formal Shihan teaching karate in various companies and schools like Kajima Construction Company, Nippon Kokan Company, Yokohama City Commercial High School and Ikubunkan High School.
There is an interesting episode when he was first welcomed by the Kajima Construction Company Karate Club members at Tokyo Station. The Kajima Karate Club members were waiting for Mr Hanaue's arrival at the station but could not find him and they had to finally return to the Company without any luck. When they arrived they were surprised to find Mr Hanaue talking to some of the top executives in the reception room. They had made the same mistake as I did today.
Mr Hanaue opened his first training hall in 1954 at his home in Atsugi (this is in Kanagawa Prefecture). While teaching at his training hall, he instructed the United States Marines and Army troops at Atsugi Naval Air Base and at Camp Zama. The Fussa Dojo was established in 1958 after leaving his Atsugi Dojo to his top students. Mr Hanaue was introduced to Fussa as the home for his second dojo by Mr Ichihara.